Re: Fishermans Bend tramway - don't hold your breath

On 30/09/2025 08:58, Mal Rowe wrote:
> I have attached a map from the document - enhanced to be more readable
> than the one in the report.
>
Here's another more clear map.

This time the tramways are in light blue.

Mal Rowe - noting the text at bottom right of the map.

Fishermans Bend tramway - don't hold your breath

Last Friday in Melbourne was a public holiday - the perfect time to
release a report that you hope won't be noticed.

The latest update on the Fisherman's Bend development and tramways can
be found at:

https://www.vic.gov.au/fishermans-bend-integrated-transport-plan

The tramways - existing and proposed  - are shown as dotted green lines.

I have attached a map from the document - enhanced to be more readable
than the one in the report.

The Westgate freeway bounds the development site to the south and the
Yarra River to the north.  That's why there was a proposal to take trams
across the Yarra from Docklands to serve the area. That idea has gone
and the proposal is now to have a branch off the Port Melbourne tramway
at Inglis St which would then divide into two tramways serving areas
north and south of the freeway.

However, that would require a widened bridge over the freeway and there
is no date for that - except a vague promise that the tramways and an
underground Metro line will be in p[ace by the 2050s.

What is happening is a couple of new bus routes and changes to route 109
which is to be through routed with route 96 and run with E class trams.

Melbourne University has already pulled out of a planned Engineering
faculty development due to the lack of delivery of adequate public
transport services to the area.

Mal Rowe - who does not expect to live to see trams to the area.

Re: [TramsDownUnder] A puzzle for you

Gracious - that has been in your inbox for a long time.

The answer (a year or so ago) was that it was the first bogie cars for
the Prahran & Malvern Tramways Trust built for their extension to St
Kilda in VIC, not liked and sold to the Hawthorn Tramways Trust,
inherited by the MMTB and sold by them to the Municipal Tramways Trust
in SA.

One of them survives - Adelaide 192 - paradoxically at St Kilda SA.

Here's a pic of it in East Brighton as MMTB 130.

Mal Rowe

On 28/09/2025 14:24, 'David Batho' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
> It says it is a "Metropolitan" Car; that refers to the design as well
> as where it will run.
>
> David
>
>

Re: [TramsDownUnder] Football

On 27/09/2025 12:13, Mal Rowe wrote:
> I made a trip into the city this morning to look at how the trams
> handle the traffic to the Grand Final.
>
> Basically it's the regular services supplemented by E class trams
> running shuttles between the city and the Simpson St shunt to the
> north of the MCG and the siding near the tennis centre to the south.

Another shot - 6067 running the Wellington Pde shuttle with some regular
service cars in the distance.

For contrast here also is one of Peter Bruce's great shots, looking in
the opposite direction,  from another era.

Mal Rowe - who rather likes Peter's pics

Re: [TramsDownUnder] Football

On 27/09/2025 01:53, Mick Duncan wrote:
> The cylindrical thingo is a sprial schute that mail bags go by gravity
> to the floor or floors below
>
Thanks Mick!

I made a trip into the city this morning to look at how the trams handle
the traffic to the Grand Final.

Basically it's the regular services supplemented by E class trams
running shuttles between the city and the Simpson St shunt to the north
of the MCG and the siding near the tennis centre to the south.

First pic shows an E heading back to the city on the south side, beside
the railway lines.

Second shot shows another E in the Simpson St shunt off Wellington Pde.
Sorry for the soft focus!

Both these shunts will be full of trams at the end of the game.

Third shot shows the railway connection at Jolimont, with a regular
service A in the background in Wellington St.

Mal Rowe - not planning to go back to see the end of match movements

Football?

I have never been much into football, but it does have some useful
attributes.

One is bringing out large numbers of trams to carry the masses to and
from matches.

It will happen again in Melbourne tomorrow, but not with the sort of
rolling stock I made the attached  picture of 57 years back.

Mal Rowe - who wonders what purpose of the big cylindrical attachment to
the Mail Exchange was.

Re: TAN Opening of Los Angeles extension creates ‘the longest light rail line in the world’

On 26/09/2025 11:48, Geoffrey Hansen wrote:
> Will the Los Angeles A line now be longer than the Gold Coast Light
> Rail line?

Yes, easily.  The LA line is 93km and even the planned (but now
cancelled) full length of the Gold Coast  would have only been 68km.

Mal Rowe - who may fit in a ride in October.

Fwd: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Brisbane tram, 1968, withdrawn dropcentres

From:	'Roderick Smith' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com>

681202M-04W - Milton Workshops (Brisbane, Qld) - Withdrawn dropcentre 319 and four others.  Roderick Smith.


Roderick

View across the paddock

The West Maribyrnong tramway runs along the southern boundary of
Commonwealth Defence land - mostly former explosives factories of
various types.

However, the eastern end of land beside the tram is a paddock. 159 can
be seen passing by.

In 1912, this paddock was the Remount Depot where thousands of horses
were prepared for service in WW1.

Only one horse returned and it is buried on the site.

Mal Rowe - who remembers that paddock hosting sheep some 40 years ago
when a wool research group worked there.

Christchurch 1905

When Christchurch went electric from 1905 they didn't seem sure of what
sort of trams they wanted, so they designed a variety to try out.

The trams were built by John Stephenson & Co of New York -who were about
to be taken over by JG Brill.

Here's 4 of the tram types they ordered - from Street Railway Journal of
1905.

Mal Rowe noting that the Tramway Historical Society in ChCh have two of
these types in running order and another on the way.

54 years since Ballarat tramways closure

Today marks the 54th anniversary of the final run of the Ballarat trams
under the SEC.

They ran the Ballarat trams from 1934 until 1971 - 37 years.

The Ballarat Tramway museum started operating trams in 1974 and
contunues to run them now - 51 years and counting.

Here's one of my pics I recently scanned and rather like.

Mal Rowe - hoping you like it.

Re: [TramsDownUnder] Fwd: [LRPPro] Toronto’s Ambling Streetcars

On 19/09/2025 07:55, 'Greg Sutherland' via TramsDownUnder wrote:

Toronto's Ambling Streetcars

_._,_._,_

---

Many of the comments in that report would apply to Melbourne.

However, some progress is being made.

One example is the introduction of VETRA Automatic Points where I understand the route is set automatically according to the route number of the tram.

The system is described as part of Yarra Trams' design & maintenance standard at:

https://yarratrams.com.au/media/spdbvzm1/infrastructure-signals-design-construction-and-maintenance-standard.pdf

Mal Rowe who rather enjoys a tram ride where the driver 'puts their foot down'

Peek-a-boo

7002 was just visible in the workshop at Maidstone yesterday.

Mal Rowe - who will check back

Re: [TramsDownUnder] Trolley Ropes

On 16/09/2025 09:17, 'Geoff Olsen' via TramsDownUnder wrote:

Well thank you all for your input. I was aware of the installation of the second rope at the time but now I know the details. Suffice to say that anything much in the way of climbing is not acceptable in the 21^st century without the correct equipment.

Climbing on the roof of a tram in Melbourne has been forbidden for at least 20 years.

The attached pic shows the breakdown crew dealing with a flipped pan at St Vincents Plaza in 2004.

A and B classes (and probably Zs) had cables attached to the roof as tie off points for safety harnesses before that but these were all removed in the refurbishment over the last few years.

Mal Rowe - still not climbing!

Re: [TramsDownUnder] Trolley Ropes

On 14/09/2025 21:50, 'Richard Youl' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
> On occasion if the normal trolley pole near the back of the tram
> became smashed, provided you got it out of the way of the overhead,
> usually by somehow lowering it, and putting it under the hook, you
> then went to the front pole, freed the emergency rope and put that on
> one side of the tram, sliding it up to the end, and used the normal
> rope to turn the pole around with your conductor operating one rope,
> and the driver the other, one person on each side of the tram, guiding
> the pole under the wire.
>
Here's a pic of that in action back in 2003.

Mal Rowe - passing by at the time

Thursday at the Royal Standard

This Thursday is the third in the month so a group of us will gather at
the Royal Standard hotel in William St near Victoria Market.

I'll be there around 6pm and look forward to catching up - all welcome.

Mal Rowe taking snaps along the way

7002 to Maidstone

Gabrielle Williams MP has posted a couple of pics on her facebook page
showing G 7002 being shipped from the Alkston factory at Dandenong to
Maidstone.

Here they are.

Mal Rowe - who will look out for this car

Fwd: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Brisbane tram, 1968, withdrawn dropcentres

From:	'Roderick Smith' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com>

681202M-04W - Milton Workshops -withdrawn dropcentre 371, plus four more.  Roderick Smith.


Roderick

Melville Rd 100 years on

The West Coburg tramway opened to West Brunswick in July 1925.

By October it had been extended along Melville Rd as far as Albion St.

Much of that route was a newly created road which supplanted Daly St
(next street to the east) as the main road.

Today's pic shows 2117 on that section with the former Western Theatre
as backdrop.

St John's church moved their focus from Daly St to Melville Rd by
building a new church, opening in 1930.

Mal Rowe occasional passenger on the 'tramway through the park'

Football - not off topic

On 09/09/2025 15:30, 'Robert Thomson' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
> Taken in the Napier Street siding?

Yes indeed.

The grandstand of the Essendon Football Ground is in the background.

On a real footy day a dozen trams could be waiting for the end of the
match - pic attached.

Mal Rowe near 'Windy Hill'

Football - not off topic

I must admit to going to one football match in my life, but it does not
excite me.

What I have done from time to time is watch the tram special workings
centred around getting crowds to and from the game.

The attached pic is not one of those, it was a fan tour on Boxing Day 56
years ago.

Mal Rowe remembering a bit of his local history

Re: Glória update

On 07/09/2025 07:53, owen brison wrote:

 

A "Nota Informativa" was published this evening by GPIAAF, the local body charged with investigating accidents in the air or on rails. This pdf is downloadable from the GPIAAF site but I'm attaching it. The Nota just describes what happened and will later be followed by a Preliminary and then a Final Report. The GPIAAF does not attribute blame. 

 

Here's how Google Translate interprets the key text:

M40021-C R01 / GPIAAF-2019-06-20 Information Note 1/7
INFORMATION NOTE RESEARCH OPENING RAIL TRANSPORTATION
GPIAAF PROCESS F_Inv20250903

Summary description: Derailment and subsequent collision of the Glória elevator cabins, following the disconnection of the cable between the cabins

1. THE SYSTEM AND ITS OPERATION

The elevator installed on Calçada da Glória, classified as a national monument, in its typology and Its current configuration dates back to 1914, although over the past 111 years it has undergone several conservation and improvement interventions, in addition to periodic maintenance as defined by each stage. Since 1926, its operation has been handled by the Companhia Carris de Ferro de Lisboa.

It has a 276-meter track and overcomes a 45-meter drop, with an average gradient of 18%. Its maximum operating speed is 3.2 m/s (11.5 km/h), taking just over a minute to complete.
It consists of two vehicles, called "cabins" and numbered 1 and 2, each with a tare weight of approximately 14 tons and capacity for 42 people, 22 seated and the rest standing, plus the driver (known as the "brakeman"). Each cabin consists of a metal bed to which a box is fixed, made of wooden uprights and crossbeams, also covered with wood and thin sheet metal, according to the classic construction style at the time of its entry into service.

The cabins are connected by a cable, which balances the weight of both through a large-diameter flywheel located at the top of Calçada da Glória in an underground technical compartment.

Unlike the most common system used in funiculars, this flywheel is not motorized to activate the movement of the cable and thus move the cabins; it is instead the type referred to in the literature as a self-propelled funicular. Thus, each of the two cabins is equipped with two 18 kW electric motors, which, through the wheels and their adhesion to the rails, provide the necessary tractor force to overcome the internal forces resisting movement and those resulting from the weight difference between the vehicles corresponding to their respective passenger loads. 

The system's four motors (two in each vehicle) are all electrically connected in series through overhead conductors to which the two cabs are connected, so that the two cabs and the connecting cable only start when the control system in each vehicle is maneuvered to the traction position by the respective brakeman.

The connecting cable between the two cabs runs underground, guided by pulleys in a trench whose opening to the sidewalk is delimited by "Z"-shaped steel profiles. This cable is attached to the bed of each cab (known as a "truck") by a special trolley ("trambolho"), which extends from the truck into the trench and to which the cable is attached using a special process. 

There are two trambolhos in each vehicle, connected by another cable independent of the connecting cable between the two cabs. 

Each trampoline also incorporates four movable shoes (therefore eight shoes per vehicle), moved by a pneumatically actuated lever system against each flange of the aforementioned Z-profiles, which constitutes the vehicles' main braking system, whether for service or emergency use. 

The vehicles also have a manual brake system that actuates a friction block on each wheel.

The elevator system, as designed, is designed to, in the event of failure of the cable connection between the cabins:

➢ Automatically apply the pneumatic brake to each vehicle at maximum force, through an internal mechanism activated by the loss of cable strength in the trampoline; 

➢ Cut power to the vehicles' electrical system through a device located in the technical compartment at the top of Calçada da Glória and incorporated into the cable reversal flywheel support, which detects the absence of the load transmitted by the connection cable; the absence of electrical power in the system also automatically applies the pneumatic brake to each vehicle at maximum force. 

2. THE EVENTS OF THE ACCIDENT

At 6:00 PM on September 3, the Glória funicular had its cabins parked at both stations—no. 1 at the top of Calçada da Glória and no. 2 below, near Praça dos Restauradores—receiving passengers. 

At this point in the investigation, the exact number of passengers in each vehicle has not yet been determined, and brakemen are controlling capacity according to the maximum permitted capacity. 

At approximately 6:03 PM, after normal coordination procedures between the respective brakemen, the cabins begin their journey.

A few moments after the movement begins, and when they have traveled no more than about six meters, the cabins suddenly lose the balance provided by the connecting cable connecting them. 

Cabin No. 2 suddenly reverses, its movement halted approximately 10 meters later by its partial exit beyond the end of the railway and the burying of the underside of the cable trench.

Cabin No. 1, at the top of Calçada da Glória, continues its downward movement, increasing its speed. 

The vehicle's brakeman immediately applies the air brake and the hand brake to try to halt the movement. 

These actions have no effect on sustaining or reducing the vehicle's speed, and the cabin continues accelerating down the slope. 

Approximately 170 meters after the beginning of its route, at the beginning of the right-hand curve that the Calçada alignment presents in its final part, the vehicle, due to its speed, derails and begins to roll to the left in the direction of travel, in which it is partially supported by the fitting of the trampolines in the Z profiles. 

However, the forces developed end up tearing the Z profiles from the pavement and the vehicle completely loses its guidance, colliding laterally with the upper part of the cabin against the wall of the building on the left side of the Calçada, which began the destruction of the wooden box and then frontally against a streetlight pole and another supporting the elevator's overhead electrical network, both made of cast iron and which caused very significant damage to the box, and shortly thereafter ending its uncontrolled movement against the corner of another building. It is estimated, with a non-negligible margin of uncertainty due to the lack of knowledge of some parameters, that the first impact occurred at a speed of around 60 km/h, with all these events having occurred in a time of less than 50 seconds.

The violent collision was immediately witnessed by bystanders and law enforcement officers present.

Emergency services were quickly called, and a significant rescue device was immediately activated to assist the injured, with emergency medical services arriving at the scene a few minutes later.

The accident resulted in 15 fatal injuries, five serious injuries, and 13 minor injuries, some of whom were not occupants of the vehicles.

3. INITIAL FINDINGS

An on-site study of the wreckage revealed that the cable connecting the two cabins had given way at its attachment point inside the upper truss of cabin No. 1 (the one that began its journey at the top of
Calçada da Glória). 

The remaining cable, the reverse flywheel, and the pulleys where it runs were found to be lubricated and without apparent anomalies. 

The cable on the upper beam of cabin no. 2 was also found to have no apparent anomalies.

The cable used is type 6x36SW-CF U 1960 ZZ L3 CRM, consisting of six strands of 36 steel wires with a fiber core, with a total nominal diameter of 32 mm and an approximate breaking load of 662 kN (approximately 68 tons). 

This type of cable has been used in this elevator for approximately six years.

It has a fixed useful life of 600 days for this purpose, and the one in place at the time of the accident had been installed 337 days earlier, with a remaining useful life of 263 days until replacement. 

The system operator considers the defined useful life of the cable to have a significant safety factor.

The maintenance and upkeep of the Glória elevator system is contracted by the operator to a specialized third-party service provider. 

The terms of the existing contract stipulate that the former is responsible for supplying the cables and the latter for installing them under the supervision of the former.

The elevator is subject to a maintenance plan to be followed by the respective service provider, which provides for varying levels of intervention with different frequency according to the scope and extent of the interventions. 

These range from major overhauls every four years to routine daily visual inspections of visible safety elements, with various other inspections and interventions performed at intervals in between. 

According to the evidence observed so far, the scheduled maintenance plan was up to date, and a scheduled visual inspection had been conducted on the morning of the accident, which detected no anomalies in the cable or the vehicles' braking systems. 

The area where the cable separated cannot be seen without disassembly.

The evidence confirms that the emergency system installed in the reverse steering wheel located at the top of Calçada da Glória, which cuts power to the cabs in the event of a loss of cable power, worked as intended, resulting in the immediate and automatic application of the air brakes in each cab.

At this time, it has not yet been possible to conduct verification checks to confirm whether the system that automatically applies the air brakes to the vehicles as a result of the loss of cable power on the truck was working. 

However, and regardless of this, evidence indicates that the pneumatic brake and the manual brake were quickly applied by the brakeman of cabin #1, but that in the current configuration, the brakes lack sufficient capacity to stop the cabins in motion without their empty masses being mutually balanced by the connecting cable. 

Therefore, it does not constitute a redundant system in the event of this connection failure.

To date, the investigation has found that the elevator is not under the supervision of the Institute of Mobility and Transport, I.P., and the investigation currently does not have reliable and confirmed information regarding the legal framework of the Glória elevator or which public entity is responsible for supervising the operation and safety of this public transportation system, beyond the intervention of an accredited entity that, at the initiative of the operating company, inspects the equipment during major repairs every four years.

4. ABOUT THE RESEARCH

GPIAAF was notified of the accident 50 minutes after it occurred, via a phone call from the National Emergency and Civil Protection Authority.

Given the accident's characteristics and consequences, it was immediately determined to be a serious accident, as defined by Decree-Law No. 394/2007, which requires the initiation of a formal safety investigation process, pursuant to Article 4, § 1, of the aforementioned Decree-Law.

A two-person team from GPIAAF began collecting evidence at the scene around 8:30 a.m. the following day, in collaboration with the Public Prosecutor's Office, the Judicial Police, the Public Security Police, the Working Conditions Authority, and with the cooperation of Carris and the maintenance service provider.

After the initial findings and recording of the evidence at the scene, the wreckage of cabin no.

Most of the physical and documentary evidence is in the custody of the Public Prosecutor's Office, with GPIAAF having access for its investigation, as stated in the aforementioned Decree-Law.

It should be clear that both investigations are completely independent and have distinct purposes. However, given the need to share physical evidence, all forensic examinations and other tests are being prepared in close coordination between both entities.

All other entities involved, namely Carris and the maintenance service provider, have demonstrated the utmost cooperation with the GPIAAF investigation. 

Among other aspects, the GPIAAF investigation will focus on the following:

• Disconnection mechanism between the cable and the hoist, with analysis of the condition of the cable attachment to the hoists and its implementation;
• Initial elevator design, its subsequent modifications, and safety system assumptions;
• Verification of the operation of the braking systems, their composition, and effectiveness;
• Definition of the type of cable and its attachment to the hoists, quality controls for execution and reception;
• Maintenance procedures for safety-critical components and their implementation and verification;
• Conditions and feasibility of carrying out inspection and maintenance operations;
• Training, experience, and proficiency of technicians involved in maintenance operations;
• Supervision of the execution of the services provided by the contracting party, including means and frequency;
• Service provider selection criteria;
• Training, instruction, and proficiency of operating personnel to handle emergency situations;
• Survival aspects;
• Legal framework for the Glória elevator and its supervision;
• Development of rescue operations.

The investigation will continue through various expert assessments to the components, document analysis, and interviews with relevant individuals.

The GPIAAF will publish a preliminary report, expectedly within 45 days, detailing the investigation work carried out and the conclusions available at that time, taking into account any restrictions arising from the obligations of judicial secrecy in the ongoing parallel legal proceedings.

After the investigation and the hearing of the relevant parties are completed, the GPIAAF will publish the final report containing the established facts, their analysis, the conclusions on the causes of the accident, and, if applicable, safety recommendations. 

If it is not possible to publish the final report within one year, in accordance with national and European legislation, the GPIAAF will publish an interim report at that time, describing the progress of the investigation and any safety issues detected to date.

However, if it detects, at any stage of the investigation, any aspect that it believes may pose an immediate, uncontrolled potential safety risk, the GPIAAF will immediately issue an urgent safety alert to the relevant entities so they can take the appropriate measures.

End

Fwd: Glória update

From:	owen brison <owenbrison@gmail.com>

Concerning the maintenance contract that expired at the end of August, as described in the ABC link posted by Tony G, the same outfit continues until a new contract has been signed after the normal tendering process. 

 

A "Nota Informativa" was published this evening by GPIAAF, the local body charged with investigating accidents in the air or on rails. This pdf is downloadable from the GPIAAF site but I'm attaching it. The Nota just describes what happened and will later be followed by a Preliminary and then a Final Report. The GPIAAF does not attribute blame. 

 

In very rough terms, the cable became unattached from car 1 at the top and the braking systems were unable to prevent the car reaching an estimated 60 km/hr as it came down the hill. 

The remains of car 1 plus the outwardly undamaged car 2 have been removed to a secure site (Tires prison) where they can be inspected. 

 

My personal suspicion is that none of the three "classic" elevadores (Glória, Lavra and Bica) will run again before major modernisation, but time will tell. 

 

The driver was buried this afternoon in the presence of the President of the Republic. 

Best wishes, 

Owen.

Fwd: [TramsDownUnder] OTSI final report on CAF failures released

On 07/09/2025 00:53, 'TP' via TramsDownUnder wrote:

I've been reading the report in depth. The more you read, the worse it gets. The level of incompetence is breathtaking, 

I have read the report, but not analysed it in detail, however, I think I have got the core of the findings from a technical point of view.

I concur with TP's analysis of the management failures.

Several of us have looked at this topic over the years and have generally agreed that the likely core issue was that the CAF Trams could not handle the track geometry - especially where the tracks leaves the railway concourse and turns into Hay St.

I think that is confirmed, but not named in the report.

What the report does say is that:

• TfNSW gave CAF the 'loading gauge' only and told them where to look up details of the track geometry.  
• CAF didn't bother to download the track geometry, but confirmed that the tram would fit.
• CAF advised that the tram would operated safely and for the contracted 30 years as long as it was operated within their specifications.
• One of those specifications was that bogies would not normally be swapped, but if they were swapped they have to be carefully aligned using shims to centre them in the bogie box.  The shims are shown in Fig 19 on page 38 of the report.  As there is no 'king pin' they are all that keeps the bogie in position.
• That does not seem to have been made clear and certainly not implemented.
• Some of the welding and some of the design was not done to the required standard.

All of those contributed to a situation where the bogie bashed the car frame and eventually broke it.

The report makes it clear that these problems are mainly due to the complexity of the low floor 'semi fixed truck design.

Mal Rowe in a city where tram bogies usually have king pins.

Re: OTSI final report on CAF failures released

From:	'TP' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com>

I've been reading the report in depth. The more you read, the worse it gets. The level of incompetence is breathtaking, not only TfNSW and its advisers and the maintenance, but the manufacturers (both CAF and Alstom), who (naturally) placed their commercial interests ahead of any obligation to inform the uninformed client more broadly about such issues that have been known in the modern industry for over a quarter of a century (the elephant in the room). Indeed, an episode of this nature has already occurred in Australia with the Siemens Combino trams in Melbourne. If only TfNSW and its technical advisors RailCorp and Interfleet (a British consultancy, ex British Rail, that specialised in high speed trains!) had picked up the phone and brought the Melbourne specialists in for advice at the outset, this very likely may not have happened. Regardless of all the above, CAF's manufacturing quality is a fundamental issue.

Another person on this forum and myself have been participating in and latterly observing Sydney light rail development since the 1990s and suffice to say that we predicted such an outcome during the 2010s, but it's satisfying to see it finally analysed in print. However, in a way, OTSI is also caught up in it because they've fallen for the same assumption of a "standard world tram" (being the CAF/Alstom product of course) when there is no such thing, but rather a range of engineering solutions tailored to specific operating environments. The OTSI analysis completely fails to assess the issue against the broad technology, rather focussing narrowly on the specific product.

Nothing will happen of course. It'll just bumble along until the claimed 30 year lifespan comes up (if they last that long) and they'll make the same mistake all over again for the next orders. It's also obvious that, because the tram design (both CAF and Alstom) is the wrong choice, services will never be speeded up to the journey times they should be achieving. I don't know what's more depressing in Sydney, this or bus orders.

Tony P

Re: Brisbane tram, 1968, trolleybus depot

From:	'Roderick Smith' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com>

681202M-04W-Milton-trolleybus.depot-RoderickSmith.

Roderick

OTSI final report on CAF failures released

From:	'TP' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com>

Here is the final report from NSW OTSI on the failures of the Sydney CAFs. It's pretty shocking.

https://www.otsi.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2025-08/Fractures%20of%20Urbos%203%20LRV%20underframes%20-%20Sydney%20Inner%20West%20Light%20Rail%20Line%20-%2027%20October%202021_0.pdf

I like the way they only spoke to Midlands and not Besancon.and Belgrade, the latter of which has huge experience with trams, compared to the recent modern systems. Are they afraid they mightn't speak English?

 

TfNSW doesn't escape either. There's one key sentence in the report:

"TfNSW established a small team of rolling stock specialists with heavy rail design experience to oversight a review of CAF's design and FEA assessment."

There is no reference to TfNSW ever having sought the advice of any tram experts, from Melbourne or elsewhere. 

Even the OTSI analysis demonstrates no awareness that there are alternative tram designs suitable for the distinctive characteristics of the Sydney light rail system. The CAF is uncritically accepted as a "standard world tram" and somehow it (and the Alstom) have to be shoehorned into compatibility with the Sydney operation. No wonder the services are so slow and micromanaged.

I can never forgive CAF (aided and abetted by TfNSW incompetence) for the damage they caused to what was a promising tram operation whose patronage was taking off like a rocket after the previous government absorbed it into the mainstream public transport system. They brought it crashing to the ground and it's still barely recovering a decade later.

Tony P

--

Fw: Elevador da Glória

---

From: owen brison
Sent: Thursday, September 4, 2025 10:00 am
Subject: Elevador da Glória

  

Lisbon saw a very bad accident on Wednesday evening. There was a runaway at the Elevador da Glória with 15 fatalities and 18 people injured, 5 of the latter being serious / critical. 

 

The Elevador has two cars, one at each end of a cable that passes over a free-running pulley at the top: in theory, the cars balance each other when empty. The cable runs in a slot in the ground. Each car sits on a modification of a Brill 21E-type truck and has two traction motors with a tram-type controller at each end. There are air brakes. The cars are wired in series with each other, via pantographs and four overhead contact wires, so that current arrives at the motors only when both cars have a controller that has taken power.

 

Witnesses interviewed on TV state that the car at the lower end seems to have started up the hill but suddenly fell back a short way and stopped at the end of its rails; it seems outwardly undamaged. The car at the top came down the hill out of control, derailed at a curve near the lower end and hit a nearby building: the wooden bodywork more or less collapsed. The driver did not survive. 

 

Owen.

Re: [TramsDownUnder] Seven birney car gathering.

On 03/09/2025 21:04, espee8800 wrote:
> Thanks Mal.
>
The exact date was 12th of April 2003, the Easter Saturday that year.

Here's one of my pics - made with my first digital camera which was
quite expensive but only boasted 2.2 mega pixels.

I left before the 7 Birney line up (with the TMSV tour group) but I do
have a copy of one of your pics David.

Mal Rowe enjoying the memory

Fwd: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Brisbane tram, 1968, two underframes

From:	'Roderick Smith' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com>

681202M-04W - Milton Workshops - two underframes, I suspect still smouldering, and almost certainly 302 & 332, which I had photographed intact in that position on Sunday morning.  Roderick Smith.


Roderick

Fwd: [TramsDownUnder] GCLR Stage 4.

From:	'Richard Youl' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com>

The Rotten miserable Queensland liberal government has done what I expected the day they were elected- cancelled Stage 4 of the project from Burleigh to the Airport and NSW boarder!

Richard