Re: [TramsDownUnder] G class testing

On 31/12/2025 00:28, 'TP' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
> Local Victorian MPs are posting photos on their social media of the
> first G class testing on city streets today.
>
Here's one as shared by Minister Williams on facebook and Reddit.

The tram is at the new platform stop in Victoria St near the market.

Thanks to my source for linking me to the image.

Mal Rowe - who reckons 7001 has passed the platform / floor height test.

Between the two Pascoe Vale Rds.

Pascoe Vale Rd was once part of the route to the Victorian goldfields.
It ran north from Moonee Ponds and skirted along the west bank of the
Moonee Pond Creek.  Many years ago it was diverted to a route a bit
further west of the creek.  The old section was renamed as Fitzgerald Rd.

A triangle of land between the old and 'new' Pascoe Vale Rd remains as
something between a mini park and a traffic island.

It hosts some magnificent eucalypts.

Last week pic shows just how small a tram is compared to one of these
giants.

Mal Rowe - very local lad

Re: [TramsDownUnder] FW: 812

On 27/12/2025 19:53, Robert Bracegirdle wrote:
> Tell us more if it's Rotary!
>
Hi Bob,

The project is described at:

https://www.diamondcreekrotary.org.au/tram-cafe/

They have done a great job - ticking all the boxes for community use and
tram conservation.

Mal

Adelaide Flexity trams [Was: Sydney Metro]

On 26/12/2025 16:02, tressteleg via TramsDownUnder wrote:
> The Gold Coast trams certainly do not have swivelling bogies, but are
> still good enough to walk from rear to front without holding on while
> doing 70km/h on the reservation.
The Gold Coast tramway was designed for the trams, so it should work,
and does.  The suspension design seems to damp yawing while the design
of  Melbourne's C1s fails in this area.  I think that later Alstom
Citadis designs do better in this area.
>
> I never thought the Adelaide Bombardier trams had swivelling bogies.
> Maybe a local can verify that.

The end sections of the Adelaide Flexity trams have motorised bogies
that have a high bolster, thus requiring a raised floor height.  There
is a step up to the area over the bogies.

The centre section has bogies with low bolsters (but no motors) and
allow a lower floor height.

Pics attached - showing the two types and holes for king pins and the
step within the end section..

Mal Rowe - not a king pin

Re: [TramsDownUnder] Everyday Essendon

Ah that famous destination  --   Station - City.

Virus-free.www.avg.com

On Mon, 22 Dec 2025 at 11:36, Mal Rowe <mal.rowe@gmail.com> wrote:

I took the opportunity for a local walk today and made a couple of pics
of trams in my locality under cloudy skies.

2009 is racing through a roundabout at the intersection of Fletcher St
and Nicholson St Essendon. This section of the route is relatively quiet
and tree lined.

A little further north in Mt Alexander Rd (once Royal) tram 2088 glides
through the long avenue of palm trees.

Mal Rowe who enjoyed the walk and the view.

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cheers and best wishes,
David in Avenel.au,    
[Before you change anything, learn why it is the way it is.]

North Essendon improvements

The roundabout at North Essendon is described as one of the most
dangerous in Melbourne.

Part of the reason is that the trams run diagonnaly through without any
traffic light protection.

That is about the change.

  See: https://www.facebook.com/reel/1425921702233457

Mal Rowe - a local who applauds the change.

Everyday Essendon

I took the opportunity for a local walk today and made a couple of pics
of trams in my locality under cloudy skies.

2009 is racing through a roundabout at the intersection of Fletcher St
and Nicholson St Essendon. This section of the route is relatively quiet
and tree lined.

A little further north in Mt Alexander Rd (once Royal) tram 2088 glides
through the long avenue of palm trees.

Mal Rowe who enjoyed the walk and the view.

Everyday Essendon

I took the opportunity for a local walk today and made a couple of pics
of trams in my locality.

2009 is racing through a roundabout at the intersection of Fletcher St
and Nicholson St Essendon. This section of the route is relatively quiet
and tree lined.

A little further north in Mt Alexander Rd once Royal tram 2088 glides
through the long avenue of palm trees.

Mal Rowe who enjoyed the walk and the views

Re: Brisbane tram, 1968, FM 405

From:	'Roderick Smith' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com>

680213Tu - Woolloongabba area - four-motor tram 405 to Mt Gravatt.  Roderick Smith.
I'm not sure of the street.

Roderick

Re: Fwd: [TramsDownUnder] Trams that got away

On 17/12/2025 22:26, Richard Youl wrote:

Don't forget 12 and 37 in Sydney 12 is operational 'as is' for special occasions while 37 has been overhauled for use anytime.

Here you go ...

Mal Rowe - reminiscing about weekends on the Provincial Tramways

Trams that got away

When the Ballarat trams closed down in 1971 tram museums, while sad at the closure were pleased to be able to save some of the trams.

Here is my pic of a couple of these trams that now are safely held elsewhere in Wendouree Pde. around 55 years ago

• 21 is back home in SA where it is part of the collection of the AETM at St Kilda.
• 17 is at Bylands in the care of the Tramway Museum Society of Victoria.

Mal Rowe - so pleased to have seen the Provincial Tramways in operation

TDU dinner and Christmas

The last TDU dinner for this year will be on Thursday night at the Royal
Standard hotel - most will get there by 6pm.

I'll be an apology - singing Christmas Carols elsewhere.

I would like to join Queen Victoria in wishing you a very happy Christmas.

Mal Rowe attaching his pic to conform QV's oversight.

Fwd: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Brisbane tram, 1968, Clayfield FM 420

Subject:	[TramsDownUnder] Re: Brisbane tram, 1968, Clayfield FM 420
Date:	Thu, 11 Dec 2025 00:50:36 +0000 (UTC)
From:	'Roderick Smith' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com>

680210Sa - Clayfield terminus (Brisane, Qld) - four-motor tram 420.  Roderick Smith.



Roderick

RE: [TramsDownUnder] Bourke St Spencer St planned renewal

> Transport Victoria have announced renewal of the tracks at the corner of Bourke St and Spencer St over the period from 16Feb to 26 Feb next year.

I'm sure the photo has been posted here before but it's worth reposting given the subject.

"The photograph shows a section of remnant track at the intersection of Bourke and Spencer Sts that remained until it was removed on 25/8/1987 when connecting curves were installed at Bourke and Spencer Streets, forming a double track triangular junction, in preparation for the conversion of the St Kilda and Port Melbourne railway lines to 'light rail'.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/victoria.vintage/posts/27003525252579823/

Best wishes,
Malcolm

Bourke St Spencer St planned renewal

Transport Victoria have announced renewal of the tracks at the corner of
Bourke St and Spencer St over the period from 16Feb to 26 Feb next year.

See: https://bit.ly/48Lbe40

The junction was last relayed in April 2011.  My pic attached.

Mal Rowe - planing to have a look at current track condition after 14
years of use, mostly by E class trams

Fwd: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Route 57 North Melbourne tram corridor

-------- Forwarded Message --------

Subject:	Re: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Route 57 North Melbourne tram corridor
Date:	Sun, 7 Dec 2025 14:59:35 -0800 (PST)
From:	'brian_weedon' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com>

There are two separate issues at play here. 

The first is that this corridor is the only location on the system where articulated cars are barred from operating. This results from the short safety zones within which all the doors of an articulated car won't fit. One quirky outcome is that Showgrounds extras run by B class trams use the Flemington Road/Haymarket route.

The reconfiguration of these stops is clearly a very high priority given the introduction of the G class trams next year.

The other constraint is time. The Epsom Road stop required a two week closure. I suspect there is now insufficient time to construct level access stops, and the  Department of Transport and Planning has taken a decision to make this a two stage project. The first stage will be the construction of the new stops with road level boarding, and stage two will see the addition of level access platforms.

The  Department of Transport and Planning should have been more upfront about these issues as the Public Transport Users Association and disability lobby groups will continue to raise this matter during the course of this project. And this is a headache for the Government as the next state election is in November 2026.

Brian Weedon

On Saturday, December 6, 2025 at 7:44:44 PM UTC+11 Robert Smith wrote:

The 25% reduction in stocks is directly from the DOT within the auditor general's update

Regards

Robert

---

From: tramsdo...@googlegroups.com <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Malcolm Rowe <mal....@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2025 7:33:03 PM

To: tramsdo...@googlegroups.com <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Route 57 North Melbourne tram corridor

Thanks Robert, you are probably right and I agree that if so it is disappointing. 

From Mal in transit

---

From: tramsdo...@googlegroups.com <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Robert Smith <rksmi...@outlook.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2025 1:35:11 PM
To: tramsdo...@googlegroups.com <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Route 57 North Melbourne tram corridor

 

From the documentation for Errol St "Have a tram flag to identify the tram stop location." This means a kerbside stop, also 3 car parks per side, an accessible stop would need about 10 per side.

The other 2 stops "Provide wider safety zones that offer more space for passengers to wait at the tram stop"

From: tramsdo...@googlegroups.com <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Mal Rowe <mal....@gmail.com>
Date: Saturday, 6 December 2025 at 11:37
To: tramsdo...@googlegroups.com <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Route 57 North Melbourne tram corridor

On 06/12/2025 11:09, Robert Smith wrote:
> Replacing non-accessible stops with non-accessible stops, I think this
> is against the legislation if it was pre-December 2022. But as they
> have completely ignored the deadline, it is definitely against the
> legislation.
>
It's not clear in the provided documentation whether the stops will be
platform stops or not.  The consultation is about location, not stop design.

My guess is that platform stops will be installed.  However the only
indication of this is the abolition of parking spaces - required for the
greater width of a platform stop.

Mal Rowe pleased to finally see some alignment between low floor trams
and platform stops.

--

Re: Track renewal at Epsom Rd, Union Rd corner.

On 29/11/2025 14:00, Mal Rowe wrote:

 - who will be back to see the trams next week 

Here are some pics of the new track in operation.

• First pic looks south along Union Rd and shows the third track siding.
• Second pic shows the spacious platform stop that will be useful when there are events at the Showgrounds.
• Third pic looks north from the platform stop and shows a regular service car using the centre track.

The centre track is being used for regular inbound services, but when trams are stored for special events they will be on that track and the service cars will use the east side track.

Mal Rowe - making assumptions

Origin of Gunzel

From:	David McLoughlin

Happy Gunzel Day and kia ora from New Zealand.

On seeing that the Guzel Day website  (hail to its creators) suggests the term "gunzel" originated in Melbourne, I decided it is time again to post the article on the true history of the term; an article from the mid-1990s FAQ of the former Misc Transport Urban Transport newsgroup from the old Usenet system.

The FAQ makes clear "gunzel" was created at the Sydney Tram Museum  to describe Melbourne transport fans, trains as well as trams.

 

The FAQ text is below:

"GUNZEL - a transit, especially train fanatic. 

"GUNZEL. According to Bob Merchant, editor of the Australian enthusiasts' journal "Trolley Wire," the term was first used by Sydney Tramway Museum members in the early 1960s to describe certain  enthusiasts in the state of Victoria (Australia) who took their hobby a bit too seriously. 

"The term comes from the film "The Maltese Falcon" in which Elisha Cook Jnr, played Wilmer, Sydney Greenstreet's twisted gun-slinger (gunsel in American gangster slang). The film has been described as one in which there wasn't one decent person in the whole film.  

The gunsel in the film was what we would describe today as a "Gunzel", a bit thick to say the least.

"Before Puffing Billy (a heritage steam train in the ranges outside Melbourne) issued their "Gunzel Pass" a few years back, their president, Phil Avard, checked with the STM as to the meaning of the word and its origin.  Phil, being a bit of a film buff, understood immediately and the pass was issued.

"Originally, one did not call a person a Gunzel to their face as it was a bit derogatory. The term Gunzel in the Australian sense was first used by Dick Jones, Don Campbell and Bill Parkinson, all of whom are still members of the STM. The term has since been picked up by New Zealand, UK and some US railfans. See also ANORAK."

--

Gunzel Day is tomorrow!

I have been advised by a member of the Gunzel Day Observance Collective
that tomorrow has been proclaimed Gunzel Day.

The date is 4/12/2025 and to find out what the significance of that date
you will need to check out the website at: https://gunzel.day/

I have attached an appropriate image in honour of the occasion.

Thanks to Ian Saxon for sharing the image a few years back.

Mal Rowe - not in serious mode

Fwd: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Brisbane tram, 1968, 494 at Stafford

From:	'Roderick Smith' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com>

680210Sa - Stafford (Brisbane, Qld) - FM 494 to Bardon.  Roderick Smith.
This was a day at the end of a month all-lines ticket.
Luckily I rode to Grange and Ashgrove: they had been closed before I was back for the final northside day, in December.
I took a photo at one, but not the other.


Roderick

Fwd: [TramsDownUnder] Melbourne Metro tunnel - hello, is anybody there?

The opening of Melbourne's City Loop certainly affected trams. People would pour out of Flinders Station and Princes Bridge Station onto Swanston Street trams. Conductors couldn't cope with collecting so many fares so assistant conductors boarded trams to help. Once Museum Station, now Melbourne Central opened, all that changed. Back then there were many more trams in Swanston Street. 

While less busy, assistant conductors sold tickets at the then Bourke Street terminus as people left the City Loop trains at Spencer Street Station, now Southern Cross. They would stand at the centre door with their foot resting on the step to keep the doors open. Front door loading only to pay the conductor seated at a console who could not take fares quickly enough would delay trams.

I can't remember the years, but around when Flagstaff Station opened, the William Street trams from  the south eastern suburbs ceased. The William Street trams would normally carry a seated load but along with other system improvements, they were deemed unessarcacy. 

To conclude, the opening of Melbourne's City Loop made huge differences to tram travel within the city. The new Metro Tunnel will do the same.  

  

On Mon, 1 Dec 2025 at 12:24, 'TP' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I bet the City Loop didn't affect the trams that much. Bradfield's City Circle in Sydney didn't really have much effect on the preference to move around the CBD on the surface, by tram and bus. I think that''s because it runs for the most part around the periphery of the CBD and the trains are relatively infrequent. The main function of the City Circle over the years has been to enable those who come and go on trains to and from further afield to have a wider choice of where to get on and off in the CBD. Sydney metro, on the other hand, goes right along the spine of the CBD and the surprising ease of getting to any of the points on the City Circle from the metro (including Circular Quay where the station patronage has fallen as a result) contributes to the popularity of the metro. Perhaps the same will happen in Melbourne. However, it is encouraging to note that the popularity of the CSELR tram through the CBD hasn't suffered either. It's only the City Circle that's losing patronage. 

Tony P

On Monday, 1 December 2025 at 10:39:30 UTC+11 Mark Skinner wrote:

One of the reasons may be that it's not yet clear what effect it will have on the tram system. 

That could well be quite large. However,  nobody really knows. So, I'd suggest that the silence is really people holding their breath waiting to know exactly what is going to happen. 

For tram enthusiasts,  it's a process that isn't finished yet.

Mark Skinner

On Sun, 30 Nov 2025, 11:42 pm 'TP' via TramsDownUnder, <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I've been bemused at the total lack of mention on this forum of this major development, the first in many years, in the growth of Melbourne's electrified networks. It's almost like all you Melbourne tram enthusiasts are willfully ignoring it!?

Here's a Sydneysider's view of the opening day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AFMYmCDvZw

It's been interesting hearing the commentary. The dopey Sydney Morning Herald did a cheap hit piece on it, comparing it poorly to Sydney's metro. The comments on that article were full of patient explanations that it was comparing apples and oranges, because they're two different systems with different purposes. 

I think it's great, but I'm not going to comment on whether it will achieve what it sets out to, because I don't know enough. Perhaps it will provide the same sort of relief to the city loop line as the Sydney Metro does to the City Circle line? In Sydney, the suburban system was getting to around 90% capacity and starting to fail and obviously wouldn't meet the population growth. I don't know if the capacity situation is the same in Melbourne?

Performance. I can see (or think I can see) in such timetables as I was able to extract from the troublesome PTV trip planner that they can apparently achieve 2 minute headways with the new signalling and the time between Arden and Anzac takes 11 minutes. With somebody in Melbourne I worked out that the distance between these two stations is about 6 km and I would love it if somebody could confirm that more exactly. 

The distance between Central and Victoria Cross in Sydney is 6.3 km, with the same number of intermediate stations (3) and the Sydney metro takes only 9 minutes, so presumably the performance and dwells of the HCMTs are not of the same order. Nevertheless, the HCMT seems to be a very nice train and I wish we could have them in Sydney instead of the double deckers.

Personal opinion, but I have to say I think the architecture is dreadful. It's very cluttered and devoid of the soaring, clear spaces of the Sydney Metro. It's verges on edgy '70s industrial chic, with lots of cluttered metalwork suspended everywhere and bits of gear hanging off bare and low concrete ceilings. Did all of Melbourne's great architects migrate to Sydney?

I'm a bit mystified by the tentative part-time start of the service. When is the line going into full service?

Congratulations to all you Melbournians anyway.

Tony P

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