Trams Down Under : March 2025

Sunday, 30 March 2025

[TramsDownUnder] Re: VR trams at Elwood Depot.

Images courtesy of PRO Victoria. Cal. combo. No. 5 and bogie car No. 42 inside Elwood Depot.

Cheers,

Andrew Cook.

[TramsDownUnder] Re: Brisbane tram, 1968, dropcentre 385 from Stafford

681201Su: Dropcentre 385 inbound from Stafford. The rising grade hints at Brunswick St rather than Lutwyche Rd, but Bradshaw St is also a prospect. Roderick Smith.

Roderick

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Saturday, 29 March 2025

Re: [TramsDownUnder] Greetings from Bill J

Hello, Louise!

Your Dad was a truly dedicated TMSV member and worker! It was sad to hear about his declining health and please pass on my best wishes.

If I remember correctly, your Dad worked for the Tax Department, as did I (as a property valuer).

Fond memories!

Len Millar

From: pincush@optusnet.com.au

Sent: Friday, March 28, 2025 7:23 PM

To: tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [TramsDownUnder] Greetings from Bill J

I can't see dad in that photo but I remember many visits to Bylands with the whole family around that time. Also digging up the rail lines in Mont Park psychiatric hospital to take to Bylands. I was about 11 and collected dogspikes and fishplates. I remember Keith and Len too.

Louise

On Fri Mar 28 2025 'Len' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com> wrote:

---------- Original Message ----------

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Re: [TramsDownUnder] Greetings from Bill J

Louise

On Fri Mar 28 2025 'Len' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com> wrote:
---------- Original Message ----------

Re: [TramsDownUnder] Getting back to trams ...

Gday Mal, All

That was courageous decision by the Traffic Manager,letting a tram with
a radius truck run fast enough to keep W schedule speed

Cheers, Mick, He He He

On 25/03/2025 10:12 am, Mal Rowe wrote:
> The attached pic dates from around 1925 and shows a Melbourne T class
> tram at South Melbourne (Hanna St) tram depot.
>
> There is a huge pile of woodblocks visible behind the tram in the
> adjacent per-way yard
>
> 179 is in its original form with no bulkhead behind the driver and a
> tip over cross bench seat on the platform.
>
> Later a bulkhead was installed - with a driver exit door and short
> seats backing onto it on each platform.
>
> The T class were the only ex Trust trams that were able to perform to
> a level that meant they could run in mixed traffic with W class trams.
>
> Mal Rowe - hastening to add that the L class trams were not ex -Trust.
>

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Friday, 28 March 2025

Re: [TramsDownUnder] Greetings from Bill J

Hi, Mal and TDU-ers!

Surely that's not me with the "fashionable" flared jeans. Ugh! I feel a bit guilty that Keith Kings, me and a few others aren't helping move Ballarat 36!

Ballarat's horse tram is running again on Sunday, April the 13th. The experience of riding up on the open top deck is surreal. Not to be missed!

As for my horse and electric tram driving. may I add the cable tram set in Hudson Park, Kilmore – after the horse tram ceased.

Ding! Ding!

Len Millar

From: Mal Rowe

Sent: Friday, March 28, 2025 10:29 AM

To: tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [TramsDownUnder] Greetings from Bill J

Thanks Louise,

Your Dad's reminiscences from his long interest in trams have always been interesting and entertaining.

He was an active member of the Tramway Museum Society and he may well be one of the team moving tram number 34 by 'manpower' in the early 1970s.

The two people at the right are Keith Kings (in the white shirt) and Len Millar in the very fashionable flared jeans.

Len is still active with the Ballarat Tram museum and may well be the most experienced horse tram driver in the world.

Please give Bill our best wishes.

Mal Rowe

On 27/03/2025 19:27, pincush@optusnet.com.au wrote:

Hi

Bill (Dad) has asked that I let you know he's still following your posts with interest. He has macular degeneration and can't see well but I read out all the daily posts for him. He is particularly interested in the new G class trams and the Maidstone depot, less so in the continuing problems in Sydney light rail.

Bill moved into aged care a few months ago and is no longer mobile so unlikely to take any more tram rides. His last was for his 95th birthday last May - route 109 from Box Hill to Port Melbourne. We also visited Hawthorn depot last year.

Louise (daughter)

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Re: [TramsDownUnder] Greetings from Bill J

Thanks Louise,

Your Dad's reminiscences from his long interest in trams have always been interesting and entertaining.

He was an active member of the Tramway Museum Society and he may well be one of the team moving tram number 34 by 'manpower' in the early 1970s.

The two people at the right are Keith Kings (in the white shirt) and Len Millar in the very fashionable flared jeans.

Len is still active with the Ballarat Tram museum and may well be the most experienced horse tram driver in the world.

Please give Bill our best wishes.

Mal Rowe

On 27/03/2025 19:27, pincush@optusnet.com.au wrote:

Hi

Bill (Dad) has asked that I let you know he's still following your posts with interest. He has macular degeneration and can't see well but I read out all the daily posts for him. He is particularly interested in the new G class trams and the Maidstone depot, less so in the continuing problems in Sydney light rail.

Bill moved into aged care a few months ago and is no longer mobile so unlikely to take any more tram rides. His last was for his 95th birthday last May - route 109 from Box Hill to Port Melbourne. We also visited Hawthorn depot last year.

Louise (daughter)

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Thursday, 27 March 2025

Re: [TramsDownUnder] Greetings from Bill J

That's so nice Louise. I think I remember your father mentioning his 109 tram ride.

Andrew.

On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 at 19:27, <pincush@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Hi
Bill (Dad) has asked that I let you know he's still following your posts with interest. He has macular degeneration and can't see well but I read out all the daily posts for him. He is particularly interested in the new G class trams and the Maidstone depot, less so in the continuing problems in Sydney light rail.
Bill moved into aged care a few months ago and is no longer mobile so unlikely to take any more tram rides. His last was for his 95th birthday last May - route 109 from Box Hill to Port Melbourne. We also visited Hawthorn depot last year.

Louise (daughter)

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[TramsDownUnder] Greetings from Bill J

Bill (Dad) has asked that I let you know he's still following your posts with interest. He has macular degeneration and can't see well but I read out all the daily posts for him. He is particularly interested in the new G class trams and the Maidstone depot, less so in the continuing problems in Sydney light rail.

Bill moved into aged care a few months ago and is no longer mobile so unlikely to take any more tram rides. His last was for his 95th birthday last May - route 109 from Box Hill to Port Melbourne. We also visited Hawthorn depot last year.

Louise (daughter)

Wednesday, 26 March 2025

Re: [TramsDownUnder] Getting back to trams ...

As I have noted before, one of the Christchurch Radiax trucks (and the frame of a second one) is at Ferrymead. Ironically, it was the first tramway 'vehicle' to arrive there. Here is a group of THS workers (now all deceased) relaxing on it immediately after delivery from a shingle pit in 1965. It was fitted with a crude body to carry ballast and nowadays sits at the end of the operable line, close to where I took the photo, blocking the line into the Ferrymead Reserve (which is now abandoned and buried.)

Brent Efford

On Tuesday, March 25, 2025 at 2:40:16 PM UTC+13 Matthew Geier wrote:

The original Variobahn car prototype (Chemnitz Tw601) had a radial
mechanism on the motor bogies where the sub axles could turn, the idea
being the same, to ease the car into curves. However it didn't quite
work as expected and the Chemnitz workshops welded the pivots locking
the 4 stub axles parallel. The production Variobahn/Variotrams did not
have this 'feature'.

Tw601 was the basis for the Sydney Variotrams. Our bogies are John Dunn
designs based on the German originals.

On 25/3/25 10:49, Mal Rowe wrote:
>
> On 25/03/2025 10:21, 'Matthew Geier' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
>> How did those things get around street corners ?
>>
>> VicSig has a 2.7m wheel base for the class. They would have eaten
>> curves.
>>
> 179 has a Brill Radiax truck where the axles can twist to take corners.
>
> The attached Brill ad describes it.
>
> Geelong and Launceston also had trams on Radiax trucks and
> Christchurch had them under trailers.
>
> The T class served for many years in Footscray which had some sharp
> curves, so it apparently worked.
>
> Mal Rowe - who notes that Brill did not sell a lot of these - probably
> because bogie trams were becoming the norm at the time.
>

Tuesday, 25 March 2025

Re: [TramsDownUnder] Getting back to trams ...

The original Variobahn car prototype (Chemnitz Tw601) had a radial
mechanism on the motor bogies where the sub axles could turn, the idea
being the same, to ease the car into curves. However it didn't quite
work as expected and the Chemnitz workshops welded the pivots locking
the 4 stub axles parallel. The production Variobahn/Variotrams did not
have this 'feature'.

Tw601 was the basis for the Sydney Variotrams. Our bogies are John Dunn
designs based on the German originals.

On 25/3/25 10:49, Mal Rowe wrote:
>
> On 25/03/2025 10:21, 'Matthew Geier' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
>> How did those things get around street corners ?
>>
>> VicSig has a 2.7m wheel base for the class. They would have eaten
>> curves.
>>
> 179 has a Brill Radiax truck where the axles can twist to take corners.
>
> The attached Brill ad describes it.
>
> Geelong and Launceston also had trams on Radiax trucks and
> Christchurch had them under trailers.
>
> The T class served for many years in Footscray which had some sharp
> curves, so it apparently worked.
>
> Mal Rowe - who notes that Brill did not sell a lot of these - probably
> because bogie trams were becoming the norm at the time.
>

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Re: [TramsDownUnder] Getting back to trams ...

On 25/03/2025 10:21, 'Matthew Geier' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
> How did those things get around street corners ?
>
> VicSig has a 2.7m wheel base for the class. They would have eaten curves.
>
179 has a Brill Radiax truck where the axles can twist to take corners.

The attached Brill ad describes it.

Geelong and Launceston also had trams on Radiax trucks and Christchurch
had them under trailers.

The T class served for many years in Footscray which had some sharp
curves, so it apparently worked.

Mal Rowe - who notes that Brill did not sell a lot of these - probably
because bogie trams were becoming the norm at the time.

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Re: [TramsDownUnder] Getting back to trams ...

On 25/3/25 10:12, Mal Rowe wrote:
> The attached pic dates from around 1925 and shows a Melbourne T class
> tram at South Melbourne (Hanna St) tram depot.
>
>
How did those things get around street corners ?

VicSig has a 2.7m wheel base for the class. They would have eaten curves.

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[TramsDownUnder] Getting back to trams ...

The attached pic dates from around 1925 and shows a Melbourne T class
tram at South Melbourne (Hanna St) tram depot.

There is a huge pile of woodblocks visible behind the tram in the
adjacent per-way yard

179 is in its original form with no bulkhead behind the driver and a tip
over cross bench seat on the platform.

Later a bulkhead was installed - with a driver exit door and short seats
backing onto it on each platform.

The T class were the only ex Trust trams that were able to perform to a
level that meant they could run in mixed traffic with W class trams.

Mal Rowe - hastening to add that the L class trams were not ex -Trust.

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Re: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Cost of new metro lines blows out by more than half a billion dollars

Absolutely concur with your sentiments, Mr Youl.

With an aging population (myself included) more and more of us will be quite content with a seat on a slightly slower train, never mind this "high performance/high capacity" rubbish.

As this forum is about trams, here is A 263 doing its best to swerve around the traffic as it heads north in Chapel St, South Yarra recently.

Stuart

On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 at 17:03, 'Richard Youl' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com> wrote:

How many people in that interior metro photo would be standing if double deck trains were running?

By the way next time you ride it between Chatswood and Sydenham, just try reading text on your hand-held phone. The violent hand shaking makes it almost impossible except when stopped or slowing. It seems either the tracks were poorly laid, suspension too firm for the light bodies, or both. No problem with other trains.

Richard

On 24 Mar 2025, at 2:09 pm, 'bblunt3473@yahoo.com' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I think the line runs under the middle of the racecourse, and providing a station elsewhere close to the LR could be problematical.

Brian

On Monday 24 March 2025 at 02:45:01 pm AEDT, Geoffrey Hansen <gnhansen290@gmail.com> wrote:

Having a station a Rosehill would be good for interchanging with the Carlingford Light Rail line.

Regards Geoffrey

On Mon, 24 Mar 2025, 12:31 pm 'TP' via TramsDownUnder, <tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com> wrote:
This is partly down to Labor, when it came into government, putting Metro West on hold while a review was commissioned, thus disrupting the procurement timetable. As I've said previously, their decision to delay the project for two years will cost more and so here it comes, right on cue.

The Transport Minister, who should know better, repeats here Labor's election lie that Metro West cost previously increased by $12 billion when it hasn't hitherto increased at all. This lie is based on comparing an earlier estimate, made before the number of stations was finalised, with the final business case estimate based on the final number of stations as it is today. As quoted from Sydney Metro in the article, the cost still remains on budget at $25.3 billion.

Tony P

On Monday, 24 March 2025 at 09:36:34 UTC+11 Greg Sutherland wrote:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/cost-of-new-metro-lines-blows-out-by-more-than-half-a-billion-dollars-20250318-p5lkgg.html

The cost of major contracts for two of Sydney's signature metro rail projects has blown out by $566 million, underscoring the budgetary pressures on the NSW government from the construction of new lines for driverless passenger trains.

Tender documents reveal the predicted cost of tunnelling works at the western end of the Metro West rail line between Parramatta and the Sydney CBD has surged by $353 million from its original estimate to $2.7 billion.

The Metro West rail project is due to be completed in 2032.Credit: Janie Barrett

Another contract for about 2.5 kilometres of tunnels under Pyrmont and the CBD, as well as station excavations and other works, has risen by $90 million to $1.88 billion.

Forming the fourth stage of Sydney's metro network, the 24-kilometre line is the largest rail project in the city and due to be completed by 2032, which is two years later than earlier forecasts.

Tender documents also show a $123 million jump to $2.14 billion in the estimated cost of tunnelling and station excavation contract for the 23-kilometre metro line to Western Sydney International Airport.

Coalition transport spokeswoman Natalie Ward said the financial strain on Metro West cast serious doubt over how the government plans to fund an extra station at Rosehill, near Parramatta, without making deeper cuts to critical transport and road infrastructure.

"With transport investment already slashed by 34 per cent, the opportunities for new projects are rapidly shrinking," she said.

Sydney Metro said in a statement that extra costs on the Metro West project included the delivery of extra cross passages in tunnels and bulk earthworks, as well as contamination management.

Advertisement

"The current budget envelope for Sydney Metro West includes contingency to manage unforeseen and forecast risks to the project including future contracts," it said.

The agency said the increase to the airport line contract was primarily due to extra cross passages in tunnels and was within the project contingency.

Tunnels for the new metro rail line to Western Sydney Airport.Credit: Janie Barrett

It decided in early 2023 to build cross passages about 240 metres apart in tunnels for the airport line and Metro West after NSW's fire and rescue agency warned of safety risks to emergency workers if they were half a kilometre apart.

Transport Minister John Graham said adjustments to contracts included important works that address feedback from emergency services.

"Metro West blew out by $12 billion when the Liberals were in government. We are working to keep a tight lid on costs and delivery, but certainly won't be taking lectures on project management from the former government responsible for that blow out," he said.

Related Article

Sydney Metro

Revealed: Sydney's busiest metro stations during the morning rush

Sydney Metro executives recently told a budget estimates hearing two weeks ago that analysis provided to the government showed Metro West risks costing more than its $25.3 billion budget. However, they said that both Metro West and the airport line project were tracking within their budgets of $25.3 billion and $11 billion respectively.

The Metro West budget does not include the cost of a possible station at Rosehill, which hinges on a vote on April 3 by Australian Turf Club members on controversial plans to sell the suburb's racecourse to create 25,000 new homes.

The cost of a station at Rosehill has been estimated at between $1.5 billion and $2 billion, according to a highly confidential review into Sydney's mega rail projects in late 2023.

Related Article

Exclusive

Sydney Metro

Late opening for $11 billion metro line to Sydney's new international airport

In a sign of the cost and construction pressures on the rail projects, the Minns government committed an extra $1.1 billion in late 2023 to complete the conversion of the heavy rail line between Sydenham and Bankstown to metro train standards.

It pushed the price tag for the entire M1 line between Chatswood and Bankstown to $21.6 billion, almost double an original forecast of $12 billion when the project was announced last decade.

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Wednesday, 19 March 2025

Re: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Brisbane tram, 1968, dropcentre 370 to Stafford

Brunswick Street between St Paul's Terrace and Amelia Street.
Sent from my iPhone

> On 19 Mar 2025, at 11:46 am, 'Roderick Smith' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> 681201Su-14-Brisbane(Qld)-dropcentre370.to.Stafford-RSmith
> Posted out of sequence. We followed 370 from the Valley to the terminus. This is the first, and I can't get that terrain lined up to pick the location.
>
> Roderick
>
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> <681201Su-14-Brisbane(Qld)-dropcentre370.to.Stafford-RSmith-ss.jpg>

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[TramsDownUnder] Re: A bit short at the 'ponds'

On 19/03/2025 17:18, Mal Rowe wrote:
> Yesterday's pic shows the siding just north of Moonee Ponds junction
> where the Footscray trams terminate. B class 2029 is passing in
> Pascoe Vale Rd.
>
Oops - wrong pic.

Try this one.

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[TramsDownUnder] Re: A bit short at the 'ponds'

On 19/03/2025 17:18, Mal Rowe wrote:
> It seems that the addition of two toilets and a couple of equipment
> cabinets plus the buffer has made the siding too short to hold two Z
> class trams.

So here's a pic that is no longer possible.

https://tinyurl.com/y79wv9av

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[TramsDownUnder] A bit short at the 'ponds'

Yesterday's pic shows the siding just north of Moonee Ponds junction
where the Footscray trams terminate. B class 2029 is passing in Pascoe
Vale Rd.

Second pic shows the view looking north from the junction.

A new sign has been placed on the pole adjacent to the siding points -
saying "ONE TRAM ONLY IN SIDING".

It seems that the addition of two toilets and a couple of equipment
cabinets plus the buffer has made the siding too short to hold two Z
class trams.

This matters because route 57 trams used to come in 'over the top' of
Footscray trams when running in or out from Essendon Depot. They can't
do that now.

It won't be an issue once the Maidstone Depot opens and becomes the home
depot for both 57 and 82 trams, but it's a nuisance now.

Mal Rowe in a city that usually gets this sort of thing right.

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[TramsDownUnder] Re: Brisbane tram, 1968, dropcentre 370 to Stafford

681201Su-14-Brisbane(Qld)-dropcentre370.to.Stafford-RSmith
Posted out of sequence. We followed 370 from the Valley to the terminus. This is the first, and I can't get that terrain lined up to pick the location.

Roderick

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Tuesday, 18 March 2025

[TramsDownUnder] Rough ride

My travels in Melbourne today included Raleighs Rd - towards the end of
the West Maribyrnong tram route.

I thought the ride was a bit rough and the attached pic shows why.

The tele lens made it look worse, but it is pretty bad.

Mal Rowe - hoping to get a snap of a tamper at work before too long.

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[TramsDownUnder] Re: Dandenong - '70th anniversary'

They've taken a leaf out of Bombardier's book by avoiding any mention of Commonwealth Engineering and making it look, in this case, as though Alstom did it all. Some may recall that a previous backstabbing NSW Labor government helped bring about the fall of Comeng by sending all its orders for double deck trains (following the first and best ones which were developed by Comeng) to Newcastle where they wanted to shore up votes. At least in that case, they chose another local company, not giving it to the Chinese like our current two-faced government.

Somebody should train that French bloke to speak clear English if he wants to work here.

Tony P

On Tuesday, 18 March 2025 at 11:47:25 UTC+11 Matthew Geier wrote:

A promotional video from Alstom about the Dandenong factory. A week or so I came across one about their heavy rail operations and it was notable for not mentioning trams. Seems they did a separate video about that side of the business so that's probably why the video about their train building efforts didn't mention the other aspect of the factory.

ALSTOM | Tram and LRV manufacturing | 70th anniversary of Dandenong

<https://youtu.be/1kieIL-p_uQ?si=KcAMJm-qHhZh8yTu>

[TramsDownUnder] Dandenong - '70th anniversary'

A promotional video from Alstom about the Dandenong factory. A week or so I came across one about their heavy rail operations and it was notable for not mentioning trams. Seems they did a separate video about that side of the business so that's probably why the video about their train building efforts didn't mention the other aspect of the factory.

ALSTOM | Tram and LRV manufacturing | 70th anniversary of Dandenong

<https://youtu.be/1kieIL-p_uQ?si=KcAMJm-qHhZh8yTu>

Re: [TramsDownUnder] Dandenong - '70th anniversary'

Thanks Matthew,

The HK tram they show is in the form of the re-build done by UGL around 2013.

They replaced the ComEng builders plates with their own - a bit cheeky for a facelift.

Mal Rowe - very sensitive to "fake news" these days

On 18/03/2025 11:47, 'Matthew Geier' via TramsDownUnder wrote:

A promotional video from Alstom about the Dandenong factory. A week or so I came across one about their heavy rail operations and it was notable for not mentioning trams. Seems they did a separate video about that side of the business so that's probably why the video about their train building efforts didn't mention the other aspect of the factory.

ALSTOM | Tram and LRV manufacturing | 70th anniversary of Dandenong
<https://youtu.be/1kieIL-p_uQ?si=KcAMJm-qHhZh8yTu>

Sunday, 16 March 2025

Re: [TramsDownUnder] Dinner anyone?

I haven't noticed that sign before. A good notice, Mal.

Melbourne's tramway overhead electrical wiring design department has a long and proudly held tradition of putting overhead insulators in the most awkward location for tram drivers. Never mind the bother of frustrated tram drivers having to start off then immediately cut power, having to semi emergency brake for a miscreant motorist and being stuck on an insulator, fuming motorists facing blocked intersections by stuck trams and delayed passengers, the proud history goes on well into the first quarter of the 21st century.

While up until the late 20th century, a following tram could simply push the stuck tram forward a few centimetres to pick up power, or a few able bodied passengers push the tram a couple of centimetres, this simple task turned into a job for a breakdown crew.

Overhead wire insulators don't need to be precisely placed. That can be metre or two in either direction and not cause such issues. Difficulties for tram drivers are never a consideration.

Andrew.

On Sun, 16 Mar 2025 at 16:32, Mal Rowe <mal.rowe@gmail.com> wrote:

Next Thursday is the 3rd in the month so some of us will be at the Royal
Exchange hotel near QV market in Melbourne.

You would be welcome to join us - around 6pm.

If you want a project for the night, you might look for the 'helpful
advice' signs that are blossoming around the Melbourne tram system.

Mal Rowe attaching an example

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[TramsDownUnder] Dinner anyone?

Next Thursday is the 3rd in the month so some of us will be at the Royal
Exchange hotel near QV market in Melbourne.

You would be welcome to join us - around 6pm.

If you want a project for the night, you might look for the 'helpful
advice' signs that are blossoming around the Melbourne tram system.

Mal Rowe attaching an example

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Friday, 14 March 2025

[TramsDownUnder] Re: Brisbane tram, 1968, dropcentre 370 at Stafford

681201Su - Stafford terminus (Brisbane, Qld) - Dropcentre tram 370. Roderick Smith.
The shops lhs have been replaced with modern ones; the brick building is still there; the Woolworths building is still there, but is now a chemist warehouse.

Roderick

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Monday, 10 March 2025

RE: [TramsDownUnder] Best of Melbourne

G'day Mal,

That's one of my favourites too.

On business trips in the 90's, I always stayed at St Georges Motor Inn on route 12 and I did it late at night in a W with a female driver, who absolutely hammered it from the City to the beach.

As there were only a couple of other passengers, there were minimal stops and the return trip was non-stop to the City, with only me on board.

Loved every minute.

Cheers,
Mick in wet and windy Brisbane

-----Original Message-----
From: tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com <tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Mal Rowe
Sent: Friday, 7 March 2025 3:13 PM
To: tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [TramsDownUnder] Best of Melbourne

Nice trip.

I would have tried to include my favourite Melbourne tram ride - route 1 to South Melbourne Beach.

It's one of the few routes that twist and turn through heritage streetscapes.

Mal Rowe, attaching evidence.

On 07/03/2025 15:10, 'Roderick Smith' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
> Two Melbourne friends shared the responsibility for guiding a UK visitor around Melbourne's trams on Tuesday. He was staying in Ferntree Gully.
> Here is how we did it.
> Mr Morning selected south-east, so I chose a complementary coverage for the afternoon.
> Ferntree Gully - Box Hill train.
> - Glenferrie Rd on route 109, C tram.
> - Luna Park on route 16, with stopovers at Kooyong level crossing, Malvern Depot, the grand union.
> - Swanston St on route 96, with a stopover at Southbank.
> - La Trobe St, then walk to Flagstaff, photographing assorted trams.
> Afternoon with me:
> - Route 58 to Union Square with stopovers in Royal Park and at the zoo stop.
> - late lunch break at an authentic Greek fish & chip shop, then back to the zoo stop.
> - train to Moreland station to photograph the new, remains of the old and the tram depot.
> - route 19 to La Trobe St, with a stopover in Royal Pde to photograph one of Melbourne's grand boulevards.
> - long wait, then the last city circle W of the day to Flinders St at Russell St.
> - long wait for a route 70, which was a packed A and we couldn't board. We should have taken a preceding 75 to Camberwell Depot, but got the next 70 (a B) to Riversdale to photograph the tram-train crossing.
> - train to Burwood, then route 75 (a B) to Burvale Hotel for dinner.
> - split: 732 bus to Ferntree Gully / Springvale Rd bus to Nunawading and train home.
> AFAIK all classes except an A were experienced. One subsidiary aim was to cover a variety of streetscapes from the 1870s through plush red-brick 1920s and 30s to 1970/80s.
>
> Roderick Smith
>
>

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Re: [TramsDownUnder] Best of Melbourne

On my occasional long weekend visits to Melbourne, I have been managing to get around as much of the tram system as possible.

While PT> does produce separate useful maps of the tram and train networks, they are not clear as the interaction between the two.

Accordingly, I made my own hybrid version which enables better connections between lines.

It may be of use to prospective TDU visitors.

Brian

On Friday 7 March 2025 at 04:13:34 pm AEDT, Mal Rowe <mal.rowe@gmail.com> wrote:

On 07/03/2025 15:10, 'Roderick Smith' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
> Two Melbourne friends shared the responsibility for guiding a UK visitor around Melbourne's trams on Tuesday. He was staying in Ferntree Gully.
> Here is how we did it.
> Mr Morning selected south-east, so I chose a complementary coverage for the afternoon.
> Ferntree Gully - Box Hill train.
> - Glenferrie Rd on route 109, C tram.
> - Luna Park on route 16, with stopovers at Kooyong level crossing, Malvern Depot, the grand union.
> - Swanston St on route 96, with a stopover at Southbank.
> - La Trobe St, then walk to Flagstaff, photographing assorted trams.
> Afternoon with me:
> - Route 58 to Union Square with stopovers in Royal Park and at the zoo stop.
> - late lunch break at an authentic Greek fish & chip shop, then back to the zoo stop.
> - train to Moreland station to photograph the new, remains of the old and the tram depot.
> - route 19 to La Trobe St, with a stopover in Royal Pde to photograph one of Melbourne's grand boulevards.
> - long wait, then the last city circle W of the day to Flinders St at Russell St.
> - long wait for a route 70, which was a packed A and we couldn't board. We should have taken a preceding 75 to Camberwell Depot, but got the next 70 (a B) to Riversdale to photograph the tram-train crossing.
> - train to Burwood, then route 75 (a B) to Burvale Hotel for dinner.
> - split: 732 bus to Ferntree Gully / Springvale Rd bus to Nunawading and train home.
> AFAIK all classes except an A were experienced. One subsidiary aim was to cover a variety of streetscapes from the 1870s through plush red-brick 1920s and 30s to 1970/80s.
>
> Roderick Smith
>
>

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Friday, 7 March 2025

Re: [TramsDownUnder] Best of Melbourne

Nice trip.

I would have tried to include my favourite Melbourne tram ride - route 1
to South Melbourne Beach.

It's one of the few routes that twist and turn through heritage
streetscapes.

Mal Rowe, attaching evidence.

On 07/03/2025 15:10, 'Roderick Smith' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
> Two Melbourne friends shared the responsibility for guiding a UK visitor around Melbourne's trams on Tuesday. He was staying in Ferntree Gully.
> Here is how we did it.
> Mr Morning selected south-east, so I chose a complementary coverage for the afternoon.
> Ferntree Gully - Box Hill train.
> - Glenferrie Rd on route 109, C tram.
> - Luna Park on route 16, with stopovers at Kooyong level crossing, Malvern Depot, the grand union.
> - Swanston St on route 96, with a stopover at Southbank.
> - La Trobe St, then walk to Flagstaff, photographing assorted trams.
> Afternoon with me:
> - Route 58 to Union Square with stopovers in Royal Park and at the zoo stop.
> - late lunch break at an authentic Greek fish & chip shop, then back to the zoo stop.
> - train to Moreland station to photograph the new, remains of the old and the tram depot.
> - route 19 to La Trobe St, with a stopover in Royal Pde to photograph one of Melbourne's grand boulevards.
> - long wait, then the last city circle W of the day to Flinders St at Russell St.
> - long wait for a route 70, which was a packed A and we couldn't board. We should have taken a preceding 75 to Camberwell Depot, but got the next 70 (a B) to Riversdale to photograph the tram-train crossing.
> - train to Burwood, then route 75 (a B) to Burvale Hotel for dinner.
> - split: 732 bus to Ferntree Gully / Springvale Rd bus to Nunawading and train home.
> AFAIK all classes except an A were experienced. One subsidiary aim was to cover a variety of streetscapes from the 1870s through plush red-brick 1920s and 30s to 1970/80s.
>
> Roderick Smith
>
>

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Re: [TramsDownUnder] Over and under

> On 04/03/2025 17:59, mick...@gmail.com wrote:
>> There's one more in Melbourne....
>
On 04/03/2025 18:39, Mal Rowe wrote:
> Good one Mick!
>
> I think I know where, but will leave it to others to do their own
> research.
>
No-one seems to have risen to the challenge from Mick, so here's my guess.

The test track at Preston passes under the hump bridge over the railway
which connects St Georges Rd with High St.

I managed to get a tram beside train pic there once, but tram over tram
or the triple rail vehicle is a challenge to come.

Mal Rowe - who would be pleased to be beaten to the shot

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Re: [TramsDownUnder] Over and under

On 04/03/2025 17:59, mick...@gmail.com wrote:
> There's one more in Melbourne....

Good one Mick!

I think I know where, but will leave it to others to do their own research.

Mal Rowe - who reckons the "over and under" trams pic would be a challenge.

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[TramsDownUnder] Best of Melbourne

Two Melbourne friends shared the responsibility for guiding a UK visitor around Melbourne's trams on Tuesday. He was staying in Ferntree Gully.
Here is how we did it.
Mr Morning selected south-east, so I chose a complementary coverage for the afternoon.
Ferntree Gully - Box Hill train.
- Glenferrie Rd on route 109, C tram.
- Luna Park on route 16, with stopovers at Kooyong level crossing, Malvern Depot, the grand union.
- Swanston St on route 96, with a stopover at Southbank.
- La Trobe St, then walk to Flagstaff, photographing assorted trams.
Afternoon with me:
- Route 58 to Union Square with stopovers in Royal Park and at the zoo stop.
- late lunch break at an authentic Greek fish & chip shop, then back to the zoo stop.
- train to Moreland station to photograph the new, remains of the old and the tram depot.
- route 19 to La Trobe St, with a stopover in Royal Pde to photograph one of Melbourne's grand boulevards.
- long wait, then the last city circle W of the day to Flinders St at Russell St.
- long wait for a route 70, which was a packed A and we couldn't board. We should have taken a preceding 75 to Camberwell Depot, but got the next 70 (a B) to Riversdale to photograph the tram-train crossing.
- train to Burwood, then route 75 (a B) to Burvale Hotel for dinner.
- split: 732 bus to Ferntree Gully / Springvale Rd bus to Nunawading and train home.
AFAIK all classes except an A were experienced. One subsidiary aim was to cover a variety of streetscapes from the 1870s through plush red-brick 1920s and 30s to 1970/80s.

Roderick Smith

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Thursday, 6 March 2025

[TramsDownUnder] Re: Brisbane tram, 1968, dropcentre 370

681201Su - Bardon - Stafford (Brisbane, Qld) - dropcentre tram 370. Roderick Smith. I'm having trouble matching the curve and background. Probably inbound from Bardon, not outbound to Stafford. Possibly in Given Tce.

Roderick

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