Re: [TramsDownUnder] Re: Melbourne Free Tram Zone in the Guardian

Very well said timmy, but I don't want to be seen as criticising the Melbourne tram system in its fundamentals.  It's a very competent system with a lot of knowledge and experience behind it, unlike any of the other Australian "light rails". I think the issue is governments that, as you say, talk the talk but not walk the walk. When you know the legacy European systems with which it compares, you see them relentlessly moving ahead in a way that Melbourne doesn't. This is because city councils and governments are behind them and put their money where their mouths are. Improvements like "last km" extensions to railway stations and shopping centres are routine for them. In Melbourne it doesn't even seem to be discussed.

And yes, I notice the defensiveness whenever I raise this! Probably because I'm from Sydney, but it's not a debate about whose system is better - indeed I'm embarrassed for the way the new Sydney system is operated. I'm just asking why? It just doesn't make sense compared to any other city I know. The trams should be able to easily cope with extra crowds, but for some reason they don't. As for the attitude that people who take advantage of a free service (actually paid for by their own taxes) are "freeloaders"- that's just disgusting. How are we to encourage more people to use public transport if that's our attitude towards potential customers?

Tony P

On Wednesday, 15 January 2025 at 09:58:30 UTC+11 timmy1041 wrote:

Why do we here in Melboure jump into defensive mode every time that someone from elsewhere has a different idea or cans the way the trams operate,fresh eyes or a new perspective can often be a good thing.Melbourne tramways have basically operated the same routes,same headways almost with little or no improvements or extensions to infrastructure,yes with a few exceptions, agreed ,but our tramway system is now lagging behind other systems now particularly european systems of similar size ,we seem to tak the talk but not walk the walk.How is it that some current european systems can run 30 -60 meter trams on narrower streets than us  with multiple routes seemingly without drama with connecting tracks at most junctions and seem to be constantly updating everything yet we can't even extend a tram line less than 1 KM to a railway station or even a 300 meter connecting track that would be a game changer for the network.It defies logic.The original cross city link proposal from 1992 would have revoloutionised the system and sorry Mal but could have longer trams in Swanston st without screwing the timetable by adopting the original proposal put forward some years ago when the E's started to arrive by having a dedicated 5 min shuttle along St.kilda rd/Swanston st  and having the southside routes operate to St.kilda rd only as feeder routes with layouts similar to the Arts center in the middle of each stop with a center terinating track with a couple of routes continuing on to west of the city destinations..So simple to implement but we don't like change here in Victoria....24 hr clearways,morepedestrian malls in the city etc etc we need to move with the times,platform/level access stops are a prime example,i could go on,even the proposal to run the 96/109 through Flinders st station a golden opportunity missed in my book.

On Tuesday, 14 January 2025 at 12:12:37 UTC+11 Mal Rowe wrote:

On 13/01/2025 21:08, 'TP' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
> The problem is not the FTZ. The problem is that YT has too little tram
> capacity to move crowds. The whole fleet should be 30 metre trams.
> Instead, not only is there still a large legacy fleet of bus-size
> trams, but the problem is being perpetuated with the G class.
>
Sorry Tony, but Daniel Bowen has it right.  The free tram zone just
clogs up trams with people who could easily walk a couple of blocks but
choose not to.

A free zone ticket for tourists and eliminating the free ticket for
locals would be a good compromise.

Locals who travel to and from the city by public transport already have
a 'free ticket'.

As I have said before longer trams just won't work on the two main north
south routes in Swanston & Elizabeth Sts - their length means that only
one tram at a time could fit in the tram stops and that would destroy
the timetable.

William St gets away with E class because there is only one route using
the street.

Mal Rowe - trusting local knowledge.

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