Can someone explain what changes were made to the lighting circuits to accommodate those two extra bulbs for the headlights? Standard headlights had one, dash canopy had three. Melbourne practice for lighting circuits was 6 x 120 volt globes in series per circuit (the nominal supply voltage being of course 600 volts, but running bulbs at less than the rated voltage was supposed to let them last longer). More bulbs in a circuit would make them dimmer.
It seems that each dash canopy had 6 lamps and each end was independently switched - see attached diagram.
So there was plenty of lighting - but a green dash was not a great reflector.
What that diagram does not show is how the 'missing' headlight was compensated for in that circuit.
Mal Rowe - noting that the switching would allow both ends or neither end of the dash canopy lights to be on.
Further to Len's comments, I can just remember "big" cars with dash canopy lighting so the phasing out by 1958 seems accurate.I don't recall seeing a a photo of a W5 with dash canopy lighting. Perhaps Mal has one in his collection?
On 29 Nov 2024, at 11:12, 'Len' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com> wrote:
--Hi, Logan and other TDU-ers!,"Destination CITY" fifth edition explains that dash canopy lighting was introduced in 1938 with the conversion of several "W2" class trams for the Silver Jubilee of Luna Park, the cars being painted silver. These dash canopy lights were also fitted to the first "SW6" class car 850, and became standard on new cars entering service. Several cars of the "W2", "W3" and "W5" class were similarly treated.Dash canopy lighting proved to be inadequate, so three holes were cut into the canopy as a temporary measure, and standard headlights were progressively re-installed, the conversion program being carried out between 1951 and 1958. New cars entering service from 1951 onwards received standard headlights. Dash canopy lighting was, however, re-introduced for illuminating advertising trams such as 1024.I remember hearing some time in the 1960s from a Camberwell Depot driver that he felt safer at night driving a tram that had dash canopy lighting (especially with the three holes cut into the dash) during World War 2, because such trams did not have the more evident headlight. Fear of Japanese fighter planes spread as far south as Victoria, apparently.Cheers!Len MillarFrom: Logan EnglishSent: Thursday, November 28, 2024 8:21 PMSubject: [TramsDownUnder] SW6 Dash canopy--Hi all,Just a brief question for someone wise and clever.What was the reason for the SW6's having dash canopy lighting as opposed to the more conventional headlights? I understand it was a failure so I hope someone can shed light on the reasoning.Kind regards,Logan(021) 0825 4513
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On Thu, 28 Nov 2024 at 10:57, 'TP' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:The mismatch between trams and platforms in Melbourne sounds like terribly bad planning.It's been pretty clear that for the most part they've been building platforms wherever it's easiest, rather than matching them to where the low floor trams run.On the bright side, just about all of the CBD is done, and they're now planning corridors (sets of stops) on routes 82 and 86, which are or will soon be served by low floor trams.So many more to do though.Daniel
In terms of *unassisted* level boarding, Australian railed systems are pretty poor overall. Most get DDA compliance only through having staff-assistance available. The only fully level compliant systems for unassisted boarding are Sydney Metro, Perth Rail, L2/L3 tram in Sydney, Newcastle tram, Gold Coast tram and Canberra tram. I'm not up to date on Adelaide, but I assume the newer tram extensions are compliant, but I'm not sure about the Glenelg line.Bus and ferry systems are generally compliant through ramps and gangways. They usually require staff to deploy them.The mismatch between trams and platforms in Melbourne sounds like terribly bad planning.Tony POn Thursday, 28 November 2024 at 09:07:40 UTC+11 Greg Sutherland wrote:
On 29 Nov 2024, at 12:59, Mal Rowe <mal.rowe@gmail.com> wrote:I don't know what the reasoning was behind the choice of dash canopy lighting - perhaps it was seen as 'modern'.
Here's a pic by Peter Duckett from the collection of the Melbourne Tram Museum of what I think may have been the only W5 fitted with it.
As you can see in the pic, the illuminated dash was used to display advertising messages; perhaps that was part of the idea.
Mal Rowe - noting that Freight Car 19 was also fitted with dash canopy lighting at one stage.
On 29/11/2024 12:10, 'pn1' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
I don't recall seeing a a photo of a W5 with dash canopy lighting. Perhaps Mal has one in his collection?
On 29 Nov 2024, at 11:12, 'Len' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com> wrote:
"Destination CITY" fifth edition explains that dash canopy lighting was introduced in 1938 with the conversion of several "W2" class trams for the Silver Jubilee of Luna Park, the cars being painted silver. These dash canopy lights were also fitted to the first "SW6" class car 850, and became standard on new cars entering service. Several cars of the "W2", "W3" and "W5" class were similarly treated.
--
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<736_BrunswickDepot_PWDuckett_Melbourne Tram Museum.jpg>
I don't know what the reasoning was behind the choice of dash canopy lighting - perhaps it was seen as 'modern'.
Here's a pic by Peter Duckett from the collection of the Melbourne Tram Museum of what I think may have been the only W5 fitted with it.
As you can see in the pic, the illuminated dash was used to display advertising messages; perhaps that was part of the idea.
Mal Rowe - noting that Freight Car 19 was also fitted with dash canopy lighting at one stage.
I don't recall seeing a a photo of a W5 with dash canopy lighting. Perhaps Mal has one in his collection?
On 29 Nov 2024, at 11:12, 'Len' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com> wrote:
"Destination CITY" fifth edition explains that dash canopy lighting was introduced in 1938 with the conversion of several "W2" class trams for the Silver Jubilee of Luna Park, the cars being painted silver. These dash canopy lights were also fitted to the first "SW6" class car 850, and became standard on new cars entering service. Several cars of the "W2", "W3" and "W5" class were similarly treated.
Tram recovery is not a new science.
Take a look at :
Sydney Tram Recovery Trucks
P11 – P23
Greg
who has seen a National Sound and Film Archeive ofnthe Karrier in action but can't find it.
Very interesting thanks Andrew. It is another example of "Modern light rail" shooting themselves in the foot because they "Don't have trams". If heavy rail does not use it, it does not exist.
If you don't mind, I will send on your words to TDU along with something like I have written above.--
Cheers,
Richard
On 24 Nov 2024, at 6:53 PM, Andrew Highriser <andrewhighriser1@gmail.com> wrote:
I've seen these plates used countless times for derailed trams and they just work, including for fixed bogie D class trams. It is quite alarming to watch as the tram is jolted back onto the rails. If the tram can't be driven back on the tracks, I would expect a one hour delay to a tram route. Half an hour for the crew to arrive and half an hour to rerail the tram.
Andrew.
--On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 at 16:31, Mal Rowe <mal.rowe@gmail.com> wrote:
--On 24/11/2024 09:03, 'bblunt3473@yahoo.com' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
I attended both the previous incidents in Pitt St. I didn't see the Unimog at either of them, so I'd guess it is not equipped for this sort of incident.
The first approach was to try and drive the tram backwards from the other end. But that suspended section is not real good at telling the end module where it needs to go. All it did was increase its angle to the track.
The missing tool (as Mick Duncan will confirm) is 'pyramid plates' as shown in the attached pic.
Careful placement and a liberal coating of grease points the derailed truck in the right direction when the tram is nudged.
Having said that, fixed trucks make that a bit harder!
Mal Rowe who wonders if a Melbourne study tour is in order for the Sydney breakdown crew
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The mismatch between trams and platforms in Melbourne sounds like terribly bad planning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTCoRsA4gYc
Looks like Parafil - which was prone to failure in Melbourne a few years back.
It seems it is not up to the high levels of UV in Australian sunlight.
Mal Rowe in a city with knowledge and experience to share.
Note in the second image how 'low' Sydney looked in that era, especially when compared to Melbourne and Brisbane at the time. Following a series of disasterous fires around the turn-of-the-century and fearing that fighting fires was nearly impossible in tall buildings, the NSW Government passed the Height of Buildings Act of 1912, limiting new buildings to just 150 feet tall. The Act was to determine the height of Sydney buildings for almost 50 years. It wasn't repealed until 1957 and as a result Sydney spent almost half a century growing predominantly outward rather than upward.At least it made photographing trams in Sydney less problematic!David Critchley
On 26/11/2024 23:42, 'TP' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
> The great wall is starting to rise, but it seems apparent that it
> wouldn't have been too bad if they'd just left it at the station level
> and not put the Cahill Expressways (named after the State Premier who
> ordered the destruction of the tram system) on top.
Perhaps Sydney needs a local earthquake. It worked for San Francisco!
Mal Rowe - severely off topic and not wishing disaster on the Harbour City
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Note in the second image how 'low' Sydney looked in that era, especially when compared to Melbourne and Brisbane at the time. Following a series of disasterous fires around the turn-of-the-century and fearing that fighting fires was nearly impossible in tall buildings, the NSW Government passed the Height of Buildings Act of 1912, limiting new buildings to just 150 feet tall. The Act was to determine the height of Sydney buildings for almost 50 years. It wasn't repealed until 1957 and as a result Sydney spent almost half a century growing predominantly outward rather than upward.
Melbourne still has a similar height limit covering the blocks bound by Flinders, Elizabeth, Lonsdale and Russell streets.
Together with wide streets it keeps central Melbourne from the 'curse of the canyons'.
Not so with the Melbourne Docklands development where developers and planners were one and the same, resulting in narrow streets and tall towers.
Mal Rowe - whose words fail him in describing the 'security fence' in the attached picture of Collins St, Docklands
Lovely photos, Tony.David (whose computer is now fixed!)On 24 Nov 2024, at 1:03 pm, 'TP' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:A fine pair of photographs at opposite ends of Circular Quay in the 1930s, featuring, in one, a young R class tram and the Manly ferry Curl Curl of 1928 and, in the other, One of Doran's Glasshouses (P class tram) and the North Shore ferry Koompartoo or Kuttabul of 1922. The very new Harbour Bridge is in the background of both. I don't know the attribution of the photos but happy to acknowledge it if somebody does.In case anybody wonders why Sydney had so many trams, it took about 14 trams to transport the maximum load of the Manly ferry and over 20 trams to transport the maximum load of one of those North Shore ferries, the trams running seconds apart between them along George, Pitt, Castlereagh and Elizabeth Streets.Circular Quay Railway Station (and thus the compete city rail circle) didn't open until 1956, by which time the patronage of the ferries was half what it was in the 1930s. Since the trams returned a few years ago, each now having the capacity of four of the old trams, they are running at 4 minute headways between two routes, which would compare capacity-wide with the old trams running at one minute headways, but only along George Street now. In days of yore, trams were running along George Street about 18 seconds apart, but they had loop termini then, none of this stupid shunting nonsense that eats into the headways.Circular Quay Station was approved for construction in 1915, but finally came way too late for its potential glory days, which would have been in the 1920s and 1930s. Now it's one of the more modestly-used city stations and has recently suffered a 6% loss in patronage since the metro opened, as Martin Place has become a more preferred northern CBD destination, it's patronage increasing 92% since the metro opening and soaring past Circular Quay in patronage. It wouldn't surprise me if the trams were again the most-used feeder between the ferries and the CBD, as the city circle stations are less convenient and don't always have good frequency through Circular Quay.Tony P--
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<CQ1932.jpg><CQ1930s.jpg>
The new junction in Williamson Rd and the new depot access track in
Hampstead Rd are finished and 6034 was the test tram today.
First pic shows 6034 approaching the junction from the reserve near
Wests Rd.
Second pic shows it edging into the new depot access track from
Hampstead Rd.
Mal Rowe - noting that the regular 82 service will use the new curves
from first tram tomorrow morning (Wednesday)
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On 24 Nov 2024, at 6:53 PM, Andrew Highriser <andrewhighriser1@gmail.com> wrote:
I've seen these plates used countless times for derailed trams and they just work, including for fixed bogie D class trams. It is quite alarming to watch as the tram is jolted back onto the rails. If the tram can't be driven back on the tracks, I would expect a one hour delay to a tram route. Half an hour for the crew to arrive and half an hour to rerail the tram.Andrew.--On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 at 16:31, Mal Rowe <mal.rowe@gmail.com> wrote:--On 24/11/2024 09:03, 'bblunt3473@yahoo.com' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
I attended both the previous incidents in Pitt St. I didn't see the Unimog at either of them, so I'd guess it is not equipped for this sort of incident.
The first approach was to try and drive the tram backwards from the other end. But that suspended section is not real good at telling the end module where it needs to go. All it did was increase its angle to the track.
The missing tool (as Mick Duncan will confirm) is 'pyramid plates' as shown in the attached pic.
Careful placement and a liberal coating of grease points the derailed truck in the right direction when the tram is nudged.
Having said that, fixed trucks make that a bit harder!
Mal Rowe who wonders if a Melbourne study tour is in order for the Sydney breakdown crew
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--On 24/11/2024 09:03, 'bblunt3473@yahoo.com' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
I attended both the previous incidents in Pitt St. I didn't see the Unimog at either of them, so I'd guess it is not equipped for this sort of incident.
The first approach was to try and drive the tram backwards from the other end. But that suspended section is not real good at telling the end module where it needs to go. All it did was increase its angle to the track.
The missing tool (as Mick Duncan will confirm) is 'pyramid plates' as shown in the attached pic.
Careful placement and a liberal coating of grease points the derailed truck in the right direction when the tram is nudged.
Having said that, fixed trucks make that a bit harder!
Mal Rowe who wonders if a Melbourne study tour is in order for the Sydney breakdown crew
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Sydney has a more than capable Unimog 'recovery truck' that probably is more than capable of pulling the tram back onto the track.
It's not the hardware, its the process.
I watch them attend a pantograph flip at Haymarket Christmas day last year. The crew were there pretty quickly - but took hours to 'secure the site' before they could actually start work. Once they got to actually working on the problem things moved pretty quickly. When I'd arrived the incident was already hours old and they handn't started work yet.
That car collision probably couldn't be touched till the police traffic accident investigation people come out and took their photos and measurements. Then the tram recovery crew are allowed to start work.
Was reported on TV news, both Channels 7 and 10. Trams at this location reported as held for three hours while rerailing took place.
Greg
